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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Spoiler the light was from a Russian Oreshnik lighting up the Ukrainian night sky.
     
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  2. No Worries

    No Worries Wensleydale Only Fan
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    I wish this were true, but it is not ... just your personal fantasy.
     
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  3. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Where are you getting this info from?

    We'll be lucky to achieve independence from Taiwan's fabs by 2035, and that's only if everything goes right. It isn't, because Intel continues to miss deadlines and underdeliver, the Ohio fab is already pushed to 2030, we still lack enough skilled workers to staff these facilities, the current administration has shown ambivalence toward the CHIPS Act funding, and its immigration and visa policies have actively driven away the foreign-born engineers and researchers this industry depends on.

    Anyone who thinks this is critically important should give a long overdue thanks to the previous administration and Congress for passing the CHIPS and Science Act. That's what actual governance looks like: identifying real critical infrastructure needs and getting legislation done, as opposed to empty promises ("in two weeks") that never materialize.
     
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  4. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    "Ignorance Is Bliss"
     
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  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    If the ship is headed straight for the iceberg, the captain doesn't need to reverse coarse 180º - Just enough to avert a certain crisis. Between the US government accelerating domestic production and also China doing the same, Taiwan becomes less of a global crisis.... unless you think the whole Taiwan drama is about anything else but fab control. Because the pitch for some good ol fashion US democracy and maintaining the perception is great for MSM headlines to program the simple minded masses.

    Also, this big push to bring this high tech production to the United States is a joint venture between the government and industry, not some political partisan hack take.
     
  6. Amiga

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    The push was made possible by the CHIPS and Science Act. That's not a partisan hack take, that's fact. Without it, maybe you get there eventually, but there wouldn't be the aim nor the funding to get there faster.

    TWN is years ahead in its fab technology. That's reality. It will take many years to catch up. And even when we do catch up, we probably still rely on fabs there for a significant number of things. What we can do is offload critical security needs (military, for one) to be independent of Taiwan. But consumer and commercial goods probably will still have some dependency, unless we pass a law that restricts all chip purchases to those manufactured directly in the US (which isn't happening). Thus, in a hot war with China over TWN, we are okay from a military standpoint, but the economic impact would be severe, if not devastating, for not just the US, but China and the rest of the world. That actually is a good thing, it's an incentive that both the US and China do not want to enter a war.
     
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  7. Space Ghost

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    CHIPS act passed with bipartisan support. If that same bill was presented today, Democrats would not support it.

    i dont think you understand. There will be no hot war, as you call it. The fabs would be destroyed thus making the war a moot point. Also, the Chinese are not war mongers at this point. There seems to be this weird fantasy of having a kinetic war with Russia and China. Nobody wants this but liberals. Not the US. not russia. Not china. This is not a zero sum game
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Wow. You couldn't be more wrong.

    The CHIPS Act actually started during Trump 1st term with overwhelming Democratic support. It passed as part of the FY21 NDAA. Trump vetoed it and Congress overrode his veto. So you are completely wrong that Democrats would not support it. The fact is Trump keeps saying stuff but never actually does anything ("two weeks out"), and he even vetoed it when Congress acted. The problem with the original CHIPS Act is it had no funding. Biden added the funding in the 2022 version.

    As for your comment on a hot war with China, you are going off on a tangent that doesn't address anything I stated related to CHIPS and security independence and economic dependency on fabs.

    You really do not know what you are talking about.
     
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  9. No Worries

    No Worries Wensleydale Only Fan
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    Putin is testing the waters for a full-on Russia EU War. I have zero reason to believe that Trump will honor the US's Article 5 commitments.


     
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    So you are flipping back again. From Russia being completely incompetent and on the brink of collapse to now being a global powerhouse plotting to steamroll Europe.

    "Oh please come save us again, mighty USA. Whatever will we do without you!"
     
  11. No Worries

    No Worries Wensleydale Only Fan
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    Your brain is broken.

    Facts on the ground are that Russia is currently losing the Russia Ukraine War. This could change. Russia has more blood and gold than Ukraine.

    Ukraine has inflicted significant military losses on Russia, in both terms blood and gold. Russia is now weak and growing weaker. They have their hands full with Ukraine.

    If Russia attacks the EU / NATO, they will guarantee that they will lose sooner. I suspect that Putin is trying to provoke a response from the Medvedev comment, since that would rally the troops and build back some support for his war.

    My comment, which your broken brain refuses to understand, is that an attack on a NATO would trigger an Article 5 response from all NATO countries, including the USA. NATO does not need the US's help to beat Russia. Trump is looking for a way out of NATO. An Russian attack on NATO would give Trump the perfect excuse.

    The broader view, if Trump ditches NATO in their time of need, is that Trump and the US do not honor their commitments.
     
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  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Oh ok I understand your point better. Basically you believe if Artucle 5 is invoked, the US automatically sends it full army. This is incorrect. None of the NATO allies are REQUIRED to respond. So in this fantasy of Putin attacking Europe, Europe wouldn't need the US help, so therefore Amerucans would not allow US troops be forced to fight russia. We already send money and aid so that's a moot point.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

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    When the US invoked article 5, other NATO sent troops.
     
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  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    nevermind, don't want to get into it.
     
    #19494 Ottomaton, May 30, 2026 at 5:32 PM
    Last edited: May 30, 2026 at 5:37 PM
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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    please do
     
  16. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You're capitulating after 26 years on this forum?
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Now that’s a real shame…

     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I’ll be your Hucklebery on this topic if you want. You’re fine with Russia winning….and you told us all they will so many times.

    And they won’t. Other than you pretending to never care or commit to one side, what am I missing here? We can go back and look at your posts. But you’ll pretend as you always do that you’re right up the middle and you’re very clearly not given what you’re defending….if you’re a bot, good job!!!! If you’re actually a human being, congratulations, you’re MAGA!!!

    I’ll give you this..at least you’re interesting…I’ve blocked the Tinman Michael Jackson pedophile love train that has to tag in 5 people to help defend him. That’s just gross and I sincerely feel sorry for him. And you’re not the MAGA dude who threatened to go meet and kill someone that I also blocked because life is hard enough without seeing that **** on a basketball message board. But it’s clear you’re very clearly on that side..and nowhere near the middle.

    You have no business calling people out here. People are tired of having arguments with someone so disngneuios. If you’re not a bot you should be.
     
    gifford1967 and No Worries like this.
  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    The irony here is that you're calling me disingenuous, however it is you who is leaving off the most important point - What I stated was that I was perfectly fine with Russia taking Ukraine if it prevented millions of deaths. So why are you afraid to include that second part? Are you suggesting that maybe 2 million deaths was worth saving a corrupt country? I disagree. And we are starting to approach those numbers. Now I can ask you to explore the Sunk Cost Fallacy, as another poster stated. As the war as shown, no real advancement by either side nor any end in sight, but yet the deaths continue to climb. So how many deaths is ok? Will 2 million lives be worth it? 4 million? Im sure you would be ok with 10 million. 10 million poor people so desperate for wages they are willing to surrender their life. So sure, wish the end of Russia. Just remember it is never the rich people making the sacrifice, its always the lowest rung of society. Isn't that the same people you're so passionate about? Why is it that you celebrate their death so much?
     

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