hadn't thought about it being a win-now move because he’s only 27. Unfortunately I don’t think we are in that window yet. But when u consider maybe we could be there in a couple yrs if we make the right moves, he’ll be on the last year of his contract. Doesn’t mean we can’t retain him, but I see your point.
Amen, Sengun, Quickley are all win-now guys. They are producing value now. In a couple of years, the Rockets are likely worse than they will be next season unless the Rockets tap into long-term assets. While I would not want to trade the vets to trade the vets, I'm also not interested in spending resources to improve the current team unless the current team shows they are worth it. If you can get Quickley cheap, sure do it. Quickley being only 27 doesn't affect me much. He isn't worth the max. As such, his Bird rights have some value, but mostly to a team that has a star. If I'm trading for Quickley, it will be for trying to win in 26-27, 27-28, and 28-29. I'd consider 26-27 and 27-28 to be win-now (short term).
I just don’t think we are in a win-now window. I just don’t think we are good enough. I think Amen will be better in a few yrs. I’m not even sure if Sengun will be on the team in a yr or so, let alone the other young core pieces. Since I consider Quickly a top 15 point guard, who is not too old, and fills a big need, I like the idea of trading for him. But I don’t want to give up significant future assets. It has to be mostly vets and/or existing players we are okay moving off. I’m not trying to be overly pessimistic, but I’m far more interested in getting this team back on the right long-term trajectory, and less focused on trying to futility win next season. I am deeply concerned about the pace and quality of development of our young guys. I feel like developing and evaluating that young talent, and adding young talent should be our primary focus.
Quickley is already in his prime years, so yeah, probably not much more in there if at all. Amen and Sengun likely have not peaked as players. That usually doesn't happen until age 25+
Rockets In: Herro and Wiggins Heat In: KD Wizards In: Giannis Milwaukee: 2026 #1 pick (WAS), 2027 1st HOU (Brooklyn), Alex Sarr, Reed Sheppard, DFS and Clint Capela Rockets pickup playmaking, shooting and defense Heat pair up Bam and Norman Powell with KD Wizards go all-in with a core of Young, Davis and Giannis Milwaukee starts a rebuilds with the first pick in a good draft, a second first rounder and two young players. FVV Herro Amen Jabari Sengun
Rockets In: Herro, Wiggins and Myles Turner Heat In: Giannis Bucks In: Sengun, Reed Sheppard, Kel'el Ware, DFS, 2 Future First Miami, 2 Future First Swap Miami and 1 Future First HOU Rockets: Amen/FVV Herro KD/Eason Jabari/Wiggins Turner/Adams
FVV + Capela + 2027 FRP (top 4 protected) for Quickley + Jamison Battle + 2026 #19 (Chris Cenac Jr.) Battle is a career +40% 3 pt shooter Re-sign Tari Use NTMLE on Grimes Use BAE on Bones Hyland + to re-sign Josh Okogie Re-sign Unc using Bird Still have DFS contract for a trade (Jonathan Isaac?) / sign Isaac when he is cut by Magic before 6/28 Quickley - Sheppard - Hyland Amen - Grimes - Okogie KD - Isaac - Battle Bari - Tari - Unc Sengun - Cenac Jr. - Adams
Wizards: Amen, Jabari Smith, PHX or BKN 2027 First, DAL 2029 First Rockets: Sarr, Coulibaly FVV/ Reed Coulibaly/ Okogie KD/??? Sengun/ Tari Sarr/ Adams We need size to deal with Wemby!
Yes, the league would allow it. It's essentially two separate deals executed at the same time - each would have to work independently on a financial basis - matching salaries. Fred for Quickley works on it's own. IF Tari signed for MLE Toronto could use their MLE to match the salary - no players returning for the Rockets - just some small draft asset that probably doesn't convey just to satisfy the something in, something out rule. The kicker here is that Fred has to pick up his player option to make the $$$ work in the first trade - there has been talk of him declining his option and signing a longer deal for less annual but more $$ overall - I mentioned this about a month ago as a possibility. If he opts out, that pretty much kills this option.
I don't disagree with the ideals. My thought is that Quickley likely locks up the salary once Amen's extension kicks in. It is likely to take at least 1 pick to get Quickley and one better than the Rockets could get for Durant.
75% of improvement typically happens in the 1st 4 years of a player's career more or less. Amen will be in his 4th season, and Sengun in his 6th. However, Amen's salary is going to go up a lot in 27-28. I doubt Amen and company improve enough to cover Durant's decline (or loss in a trade) especially as they get more expensive. I'm fine getting Quickley if the Rockets decide to try to win now (i.e., next 2 seasons). I'd prefer giving the guys a chance to prove it before the deadline before investing more into this team. I think it will take significant assets to get him (i.e., more than it cost to get Durant). If the Rockets get Quickley, they will likely spend more resources than just what they use to get him to improve now. Prior to Amen's extension kicking in, the Rockets could be loose with contracts as it was more important to spend than to spend much less, but efficiently (hard to spend a lot efficiently except on rookie extensions and max contracts).
That turns us into an old team quick. A Heat package built around Tyler Herro, Kel’el Ware, another player or two, as well as multiple first-round draft picks and pick swaps was previously offered to Milwaukee for Giannis. Let that go down and offer Reed, DFS + a future first or seconds for Herro. Maybe route Clint to the Heat in the deal. Milwaukee gets more ammo for their rebuild and we don’t gut our team and get really old. Still need that true PG, though.
Rockets fans have to be the only fanbase where the fake trades are all sell lows on our own players and assets. There really is a chronically pessimistic outlook here. Even fans of the bad teams like the Kings will be like "two first round picks for our backup shooting guard!" or fans of trainwrecks like the Nets expect frp's for their rotation C. But Rockets fans propose trades where we send out 23yo all-stars or elite role players or a top 15 player all time, and then also have to add picks to get back some non-blue chip asset. Practically every recent trade in this thread the Rockets FO would simply laugh and hang up. They think their players and assets are high value, that's why they acquired them in the first place. If a trade doesn't value them that way... they just wouldn't do the trade.
I look at some of these trade ideas and I think the posters work for the other team's front office... Amen is the best player in the deal and we give up two future 1st round picks? I know that our roster is out of balance - and this probably represents a "Fair" deal for Stone... but I just die at the thought of doing something like this.
If Miami trades Ware in a Giannis trade... the Rockets should be in on that and try to get Ware and send somone to Milwaukee. A resigned Tari Eason + a pick? I am as open to moving the young "core" as I have ever been... I am willing to give it one more year, but I think we will have to move at least one of Sheppard, Amen, and Sengun to balance the roster... 2 non-shooter and 2 weak defenders. <<==== looking at that statement makes me think we could move Sengun for the right piece. I wouldn't give him away like many on this board... he has value... just our roster is broken. I think the Sarr or Kel'el Ware trade ideas have merit, its just we give up too much usually. Plus, I don't trust Stone to get value... which is why I would run it back and let the next GM make the decision after another first round flame out.
I largely agree, but I do think that some of our players are worth less on the trade market than their production should indicate, because we've (by accident or by intent) gone in on so many specialized players who are elite in certain areas relative to their position but also unusually weak in others. This limits the trade market for them to teams where they would fit the roster well. I think in reality what this means though is that they're unlikely to actually be traded because I don't think the front office is likely to give them up for a return that is less than their production should demand. I do think fans are especially underestimating the return that could be had for KD. Sure, he's burned a number of bridges around the league, and is at the tail end of his career, but there are teams out there that would be very tempted by his ability to potentially take them "over the top", and to those teams he's highly valuable and easily worth a first round pick, and maybe even two FRPs (depending on the quality of the picks and what other players are involved in the trade).
I wonder if KD would be tempted to return to GSW if they pick up LeBron. One last run for the old guys? Does #11 and Jimmy work for both sides?
Yes to your conclusion in that first paragraph. I think Rockets fans in particular have this conception that for our own players, "trade value" is what we could call up and get another team today to give us for our player. Basically the bid price. But for players on rival teams, "trade value" is what the Rockets would have to give the other team to convince them to trade us their player today. The ask price. The bid-ask spread is high for almost every player in the league. That's why 99.9% of players aren't getting traded every day. The ask prices on KD, Sengun, Amen, Reed, FVV, Adams, Jabari etc are all premium. The FO and ownership like them all, there's no bad contracts, and there's nothing forcing them to sell . Stone is a transaction guy. He would run it back and go out on his shield rather than trade any of them at some low bid.
I don’t have anything else. It all starts with trading KD. It’s the most logical way to improve the long-term success of the team. It makes no sense to have KD on this team if we are not contending. It’s clear to me that we are not good enough to contend.
