100% this. We are not asking Udoka to invent an offense. He needs to use what was successfully done in the past for players of similar skill set and fit in with the current players instead of preferring ISO ball.
A game and half is closer than getting hurt in the 1st or second game and never playing any more. Butler had a TS% of nearly 60% that series. Butler lived at the line. 12 FTs in Game 4. Defense wasn't great, but he scored on volume and efficiency in 3 of their wins. I would say he was likely better than Wiggins as I don't think Wiggins could make up for the Warriors getting easy points from Butler's grifting. Maybe Wiggins would have been better. If Butler didn't play after he got hurt, the Rockets would have won that series as the Warriors needed his grifting. On the Wolves....the Warriors won every game that series that Curry played. I think most reasonable people would either say the Wolves were better or that Curry got hurt as the reason the Wolves won 4-1. Butler had a bad series against the Wolves, but without Curry...it is much easy to throw more defenders at Bulter.
I liked the culture they bring, didn't really rate the players themselves that highly coming in (though I massively missed them this season) and I gave a lot of the credit for the results the season before last to Ime when I think I should've fairly and rightfully given more to Fred and Dillon. I'm struggling to understand why you apparently find that difficult to understand? Axe to grind about something?
I've largely agree with many of your Rocket assessments. I think Stone looks at team building in "windows" that are based around contracts. We have a young core that we may or may not need to give extensions to, so we need to have cap space for that, hence players like FVV, Adams, Capela, and DFS to fill that vet gap on a budget. I think Stone views us having one more season (2026) in this particular window. I think Stone and Udoku looked at the roster's strengths and weaknesses and decided that possessions (low TOs, lots of rebounds, etc.) would be this team's version of spamming 3s in the mid 2010s. We were a contender tier per the national NBA media before FVV went down, but smart NBA media took the Rockets out of the contender once FVV went out. Like you said, we would need luck and a large step forward by Amen and/or Sengun.
I think Stone developed a team that had a shot if things went their way (probably needed a trade still). I'm not saying the Rockets don't value defense and possessions. I just would not say they overvalued it when they didn't spend much to get it. Amen and Sengun are the only non-shooters the Rockets have invested in. On the windows, I do think Stone saw a chance to jam a bunch of vets before Amen's extension started, with little long-term consequence to the team. I expect the Rockets to be evaluating Amen and Sengun closely next season. They will either work well next season together or they won't both be Rockets in 27-28. I do think Stone wants to make a trade. I just doubt he finds a good deal.
Yeah, even those of us who wanted an upgrade to FVV understood the skillset was necessary. Losing him was the one position this team had no contingency plan for. They had to hope that Amen and Reed could fill the void, I don't believe Amen is a guard at all - he's a 3 or 4 and Reed is not a point guard, more of a combo guard whose size is a disadvantage. Brooks was the defensive identity .... the toughness, taking the opponents best wing player nightly. We expected Amen and Tari to take over that role, it didn't happen.
Hoped the combo of Reed, Amen, and Sengun could fill the void. We didn't want to but the bandaid got ripped off this year. I think we also forgot that having such a young core, means players are trying to prove themselves as a main guy/key guy. Amen knows he won't get a max by playing elite defense and tertiary offense while Brooks already knows he's a great role player. Brooks and FVV (and Adams) seem to like being a mentor on and off the court. On the court they help get everyone in the right spot and right with the timing.
I specifically talked about how Duren is not an offensive hub for Detroit. I also specifically said that Rockets top 2 of their top 3 players cannot shoot (outside the paint). You seem to not know what this means so let me help you out. hub (dictionary): a center of activity : FOCAL POINT the central part of a circular object (such as a wheel or propeller) Offensive hub in basketball (AI): An offensive hub in basketball is a primary playmaker around whom a team's offensive system revolves. Rather than just scoring, this player facilitates ball movement, sets screens, and distributes passes—operating as the "engine" that initiates plays and creates scoring opportunities for teammates https://www.coachesclipboard.net/PeteCarril_PrincetonOffense.html Having a center who can play away from the basket at the high post and shoot effectively from there, and can handle the ball, and can pass well (the "hub" of the offense)… Duren is not an offensive hub. Detroit does not run their offense through him. He does not get the ball in the post consistently each game. He does not ISO and he does not get the ball in the high post looking for cutters. He does not drive and make plays for that team. Cunningham is their main hub. Since he is not a main hub the offense isn’t structured around him. He simply cuts or plays screen and roll or stands in the paint to score. The rockets offense is structured around Sengun and Durant. This means Sengun initiates offense on on one. Sengun is in positions to make a lot of decisions whether it’s scoring or setting other players up. Teams usually trap hubs. Aint no one doubling Duren. The entire offense is structured around Sengun past 3 years. A little less this year with fred out and Durant being here but he still is a main hub. You compile this with your other major offensive contributor in Amen and now you have a logjam on offense as teams trap and play zone or matchup zone on us waiting for Amen and Sengun to drive. Giannis didn’t play with a guard that can only shoot 10 ft. He was surrounded with 4 shooters including a stretch 5. Rondo had a midrange shot 15-20 ft. He also had 2 great shooters and their hub isn’t a center that can only shoot 10 ft. KG could hit that 15-20 ft shot. Not everything is a drive like how Amen and Sengun plays. Barnes is an excellent mid range shooter and can hit outside the paint. He can still launch threes with more attempts than Amen or Sengun and you still have to guard him out there. He also does not play on a team that plays through their center as a main hub. Poetl isn’t posting up 5 times plus a game or driving from the perimeter.
Amen is a major contributor even if he isnt a hub? But Duren who has almost the same usage rate as Sengun is not even part of the Detroit offense? Both Duren and Amen score the same way do you even get that? If you think Amen as the no 3 option already log jams the offense what about Duren who is the 2nd option and gets almost as much touches as Sengun? Sengun who is the hub cant shoot 3s and Cade who is the hub can. However Rockets first option KD is an accurate sniper and the Pistons 3rd and 4rth options also cant shoot 3s. On the Rockets you have KD, Reed and Jabari who are all dedicated spacers meanwhile on the Pistons only Robinson is a dedicated spacer and the other 4 are paint cloggers or below average shooters. You say just two guys Amen and Sengun logjam the offense already as everybody waits for them to drive but on the Pistons 3 guys are driving and only Robinson is an average shooter from 3. Robinson however is a low volume guy and their 5th option. Our own 5th option Reed Sheppard shoots more than him. Cade 34% Duren 0% Harris 36% Ausar 25% Robinson 41% Rockets KD 41% Sengun 31% Amen 21% Jabari 36% Reed 39% As you can see the Pistons shooting and spacing are a lot worse than the Rockets, yet the Pistons offense is much better than the Rockets. The only defense you have is Sengun is the offensive hub, which like I already told you lots of offensive hubs couldnt shoot like Jason Kidd and Giannis and Rondo. Also Sengun CAN hit mid range lol quit lying. You think he just dunks every play? You keep moving the goal posts when people say shooters they mean 3 pt shooters not mid range shooters who cant shoot 3s. Mid range 3-10 ft/10-16 ft/16-3 pt Barnes on mid range 44/48/42 Sengun on mid range 51/41/26 Cade on mid range 45/50/34 Giannis on mid range 42/28/25 Sengun is only slight worse than Scottie Barnes and Cade while having much better spacing around him. Rockets offense would be much better under an offensive coach like Mike Brown or Chris Finch, its clear Udoka doesnt know what to do.
But Butler getting injured and never playing again is closer than you pretending he was the same Butler as the regular season. 7 mins isnt half a game lol way to round up there. Regardless how you slice it Rockets were still the favored team as they were at full health and got 2nd seed while the GSW team that was tearing it up was banged up. Steph was also already playing injured vs the Rockets. He jammed his fingers or something and had that flagrant foul caused by Amen. 7th seed old ass GSW with banged up Curry and Butler missing 2 games vs 100% healthy second seed Rockets. Moreover GSW just came out of the intense play in while Rockets had a week to relax, practice and game plan for GSW. Even if you claim GSW wasnt your typical 7th seed they were still the underdogs vs the Rockets. Rockets had no business losing that series esp with prep time on their side its just that Udoka got thoroughly outcoached by Kerr.
Silas played a read and react/motion offense. He did not use Sengun as a hub. He played a lot of 5 out and 4 and 1 motion/RR offense which prioritized ball sharing and handing from the guards. Many Rockets fans criticized this and wanted Sengun as a hub. If the Rockets play a motion offense then Sengun would have to take a back seat unless you are talking about a system that incorporates some motion/RR. Many teams play some combo of ISO and motion/RR. The Rockets personnel makes it difficult since our 2 guard can’t shoot. The perimeter rotations and actions would be useless with him out there unless they find a way to mask that or work him in. I think maybe last year’s team with Dillon and JG is better suited for motion/RR. Also one thing to note, when teams clamp down you need your stars to ISO and improvise. Great teams have this (SGA, Brunson etc). So combo of both might be the best direction
clearly you don’t understand what a hub is and clearly you don’t understand how the Rockets run their offense. I already explained to you the difference in the players you cited and how they are used compared to Sengun and i explained how the rosters on the teams they play on are different yet you still refuse to understand and cite bullshit usage examples again and repeated yourself again with the players you cited in your first response. It is clear you have not watched how Detroit plays and just giving me stats you read somewhere So it seems you may be arguing just to argue since you rehashed your first response to me. And since this is the case, I am no longer discussing this with you.
From what I can tell in his time here, Stone likes to play everything safe. All his picks have been close to consensus, he doesn't really make risky trades, he doesn't hand out huge long contracts without options. Even the one big trade he made only happened when we were fairly certain that Green wasn't gonna be anything special. He's a good front office guy but I don't think he's a championship building GM. He doesn't have a basketball background so he can't come up with his own ideas and can't think out of the box. If we want to win it all, we need someone who can take big swings. I'd love to have stone if my goal was just to be in the playoffs every year but he's not bold enough for a championship.
A huge part of that is being lucky enough to have a franchise guy on the board when it's your turn to pick. Stone hasn't had that kinda luck. Back to back years with the worst record and he came away with Jalen and Jabari while San Antonio and Detroit got the franchise players. In the years since the rebuild began, there hasn't been a franchise guy taken after the Rockets pick and there wasn't any trade that was going to be made to get one of those guys - the teams that made those picks were gonna make them, no question about it. I think Stone did a pretty good job all things considered. The only pick I'd change would be Reed over Castle - and I was a big supporter of taking Reed and that story is still being written. I would have done things a bit differently in FA but I understand giving your coach the guys he says he can win with .... I doubt he makes the same mistake again with no contingency play for an important player.
I don’t get the basketball background talk. You have to get your start somewhere. He has been here 21 years and learned a great deal from Morey and has been a big part of the decision making process as part of the management team. He at least played Basketball in college unlike Morey or some other execs. Having said that I agree that he plays it safe and conservative. This might be due to lessons learned from the Morey era. Maybe he’s too afraid to repeat the past so his approach is safe.
I don’t think it’s luck at all. NBA is $15 billion dollar business in a lucrative sports industry. Do people really think things aren’t tightly controlled and left to chance? Yao to Rockets wasn’t unplanned and Victor to Spurs wasn’t either with the NBA’s insistence on building upon the Euro market and its operations in Europe. The San Antonio French connection had already been established for years with licensing and tv deals. Unfortunately that’s how it goes But in terms of his decision making I agree that we weren’t in a position to get franchise guys. People need to remember he wanted Cade and settled for JG. I just think he should have drafted Barnes and Castle. Overall he’s been ok. He’s built a playoff team and that’s no easy feat. Let’s see what he does the next couple years before closing the book on him.
Interesting you give credit to the player/s last year while exonerating them this year and blame the coach for all of their shortcomings. This seems a common theme with Rockets fans. I also find it interesting that when the Rockets won 2 games straight after a game 3 which they should have won, no one credited coaching. Udoka can’t win with you people. Criticized either way.
I think what you are actually seeing is Stone trying to keep the Rockets as flexible as possible while trying to develop a young core to compete in the playoffs and being able to pivot for a disgruntled star at a moment's notice by moving some/most of the young core. Stone's actions suggest he does not truly think they have a top ten type of franchise player on the roster.
I can see the reasoning behind taking Green over Barnes (I was one of the few who wanted Barnes on draft night) and Reed over Castle - the thinking was they had much higher ceilings, if they played up to their potential / matched the hype. Neither turned out to be true ... hindsight is 20/20. For a team that was / is star hunting, I don't think either was a poor decision. You take chances on high upside guys until you hit on one, then you start taking safer picks like Barnes and Castle to fill in around them.
