I can be upset at reed when I see things like this

The fact that you treat shooting as if it were some optional rifle attachment you can just mount or remove at will makes you sound uneducated. It's not a skill set a player can simply acquire whenever they decide to. You and the people who think like you are part of the reason we are in this mess. You assume shooting will just naturally come with time like summer after spring or a baby nine months after conception so you never worry about it at all. Instead you prioritize traits that do not necessarily make someone a good basketball player such as vertical, first step etc

Castle has always been a better 3pt shooter than Amen. Last season he shot .285 on 4.1 apg on significantly higher volume than Amen who shot .275 on just 1.3 attempts. Also, his shooting form has always been better.

 

Lies, he can hoop n is a complete shooter, just needs time. Not worried about his offense, his defense is a question mark. He may never improve there

 

Yeah that's how I look at it. I want to see what has improved. That's why I'm out on Sengun, I feel like he's regressed, he's lost the touch around the rim and its more looking like we've maybe seen all that he is...which is a decent Euro big man, which is like Sabonis. Domantas is a great player to have on your team but it's more someone you ADD to your team, not build around.

Same reason I was ready to give up on Jalen, we saw no improvement. Still streaky SG year after year. 2nd year Jalen no different than current Jalen.

Jabari is an odd one, he's just NOW showing improvement. Maybe there's hope there, we'll see

Amen has shown improvement in his game, I honestly think the no spacing roster just hurts his game.

But Reed, we've seen him for one season pretty much.

I do agree he has a hard road to stardom because of his size, he can't be this size and not improve on his handling...but from what we hear from the org they are focused on improving his defense. I remember his rookie training camp Reed said something like the first few weeks he didn't touch a ball at all and just worked on his conditioning and defense...and we wonder why the shooters we get come here and lay up bricks lol, if that is true, then it makes sense.

I too DGAF about his defense, Nash was a worse defender than Reed is (reed actually can get you steals and blocks), but Nash made up for it with everything else. If Reed gives us the shooting we expect from him and just keep the TOs down and work on his mid range game I think he can get there.

Unless its for some young star like Anthony Edwards or Jaylen Brown, I'd rather hang on to Reed this upcoming season and see how/if he improves on his game. That's just me though.

 

So you consider less than 30% from deep in the playoffs a "complete shooter?" You must absolutely ADORE the Thompson twins.

 

I think his shooting will keep him in the league and he has enough other skills that he's not a one-dimensional guy like Seth Curry, either. I'm just still not sure he's a starter. I lean toward "yes", but even if so, I think he's more likely in Jabari's range of value (solider starter / worth 15% or so of the cap), and I've never had any real belief in him living up to these all-timer comps like Steve Nash or whoever you want to trot out. Chance he becomes a fringe all-star but he has a long way to go to get there.

 

I don’t post worrying about crow…nobody is 100% correct on everything, so that’s whatever to me

and yes, it is indeed a straw man argument…me thinking that we should’ve taken Castle doesn’t mean I think Reed will never improve, that doesn’t even make sense and is not something I or anyone else has ever said

you keep changing up the argument…one paragraph me wanting Castle over Reed means I think Reed will never improve, then the next it means something else

Which is it? Pick one

there’s an example for everything…we’ve heard it all before for the young core from player X went from this to that after 5 seasons so we need to wait ages before forming an opinion, to Kawhi learning how to shoot, to elite shooter like Dirk or KD shooting below average as a rookie (was a popular one for “elite shooter” Jabari back in the day), etc…they’ve all been said along with the cope of “put our young guy on the other team instead and that team is better” or our young guy would put up better numbers…I remember it being used for freaking Jalen Green vs Cade Cunningham

Tyreke Evans didn’t improve after his rookie year and wasn’t starting and contributing on a WCF team

 

I genuinely think he's more likely to be a JJ Redick type at his absolute peak. But in order to do that he NEEDS an offensive coach who knows how to create those advantages for a massively undersized sniper. We should actually be having him run all over the place with his defenders bouncing off screens to give him wide open looks, I just don't see him ever being natural enough with the ball in his hands to be a PG in truth. He picks up that dribble WAY too much, despite showing some potential with his passing and vision.

 

again, Castle was always capable of hitting shots so he was never a poor man’s Amen…Amen is a total non-shooter, and Castle never was…that is evidenced by the fact that it’s even possible for him to shoot this well for a prolonged stretch on decent volume because we all know Amen could never

Castle is a weak shooter that has improved, Amen is basically a non-shooter…he was that in high school, for Overtime Elite, and for the Rockets

Castle is also a far more confident shooter than Amen’s ever been…Castle will shoot if you leave him open, Amen will hesitate

if you leave Amen wide open from beyond the arc, he is just as likely to airball as he is to hit rim, let alone actually make it

 

Yeah, pretty much the same. I think he can be a better secondary playmaker than somebody like Redick, but I don't see a primary ballhandler without major improvement in his ballhandling/decisionmaking. The league is weird now though. There are a lot more primary ballhandlers outside of the traditional "point guard" position than there used to be. Maybe Reed can carve out a starting role next to one of those guys, whether it's one of ours or on another team.

 

I don't think very many people (and certainly no objective/rational people) will look at the 6 playoff games as anything relevant. He shot 39.4% on 7 attempts a game in only 26 minutes, that's excellent. Rui for example is easily the greatest playoff shooter ever at well over 50%, and that's actually in a sample of 1200 minutes. Certainly you don't think he's the greatest shooter to touch a basketball just because in a random sample of games he happens to shoot he best, do you?

 

No, but I also don't think you can discount it entirely when somebody completely ***** the bed in the playoffs. I never mentioned anything about your straw man with Hachimura so that's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

op seeking permission to be upset?!

total wasted draft pick.

 

That's very fair, it's a shame the defense with him and Sengun is so bad tbh, Sengun's exactly the type of player who if he realised his potential could be the kind of non-PG distributor working alongside an undersized sniper who's not necessary a ball-dominant playmaker. That's one of our big issues I think, we have all these players who are non-conventional, but their strengths don't compliment each other as much as their weaknesses amplify each others.

 

Sure, if he's shooting lousy in the playoffs for an extended time period over a lot of games i could see bringing up. Bringing it up now though just because you hate him and saying that he's not a good shooter b/c of that isn't remotely objective, it's just hate. Rui is a perfect example b/c his variance is just on the other end.

 

Nah, Rui's a straw man, and a bad one because he's actually a good shooter. We're not discussing him though, we're discussing Reed Sheppard, who has one regular season shootin 33%, one shooting a respectable 39.4% (about 111th in the league I believe - hardly generational) and a playoffs shooting like a prime Amen Thompson. I don't hate Reed, I'm actually a fan and turned around on him early in the season. I even bought his jersey this year (only person.) Just a shame none of the promise he showed at times materialised at all, in any way during the playoffs.

 

NBA.com has him 39th but that's not too important, shooting develops later usually. He has 3 samples so far for his shooting at the nba level.
1. Rookie season - 142 attempts, 33.8%
2. Sophomore season - 576 attempts - 39.4%
3. Playoffs - 54 attempts - 29.6%

I will say, i'm one of the bigger Reed stans on here, and his playoff performance was basically exactly what i expected (i had zero doubt he would be horrid), so maybe that's why it doesn't phase me.

What matters for Reed is ball handling, that's it. If it doesn't improve he's an ok starter/great 6th man. If it really improves, he's a star. Small guards take longer to develop though so I would wait on him.

 

You wanting Castle over Reed means you think Castle will always be better than Reed, how does it not? If you thought that Reed could develop into the better player, then you wouldn't be phased by his playoff performances. That's a final assessment when you say "I'd rather have this player than that player"

Reed could still 'improve' but you don't think it'll ever be enough to make it better than Castle, otherwise, why would you want Castle over Reed or say that we should have drafted Castle over Reed? You didn't say "Castle is better than Reed right now." you've said "We should have taken Castle."

People saying "We should have taken Castle over Reed" are making a definite statement that Castle will always be the better player.

Yeah, that's the point with guys like Tyreke, they never improve so their role lessens throughout the years and then their numbers do too.

But Reed hasn't even been given a 2nd year to even show improvement before people want to call him a bust and say it was a mistake to pick him. All while 94% of the board wanted him to be the pick lol...

I'd get this if it was his 4th year and he was doing the same things, like Jalen, I mean I'd get it. I'm not saying its wrong forming an opinion about him just saying that opinion seems pretty concrete.

 

NBA.com literally has him 111th. Wild that you were accusing others of making up numbers...

 

Defense matters and a lot of it is about situational awareness. Know that a guy is slipping, cutting or going to curl etc. A couple missed plays like that a game could be the difference in close games.

 

Oh you're counting players who went like 1-1 on the season, the top 4 are at 100% because they all went 1-1 on the season, i guess i don't see much value in counting those guys but fair enough, when it looked earlier it didn't include those guys.