I find this poll funny. It seems the prevailing thought on Clutchfans is that 26-27 will not be a contending season no matter what the Rockets do. Also Clutchfans, let's make big changes to try to salvage 26-27. Any time a star is brought up, Clutchfans says can't do it because the star doesn't fit timeline. I'm in the run it back crowd of maybe one. I just don't see the Rockets having valuable trade commodities except draft picks, Amen, Sengun, and Reed. As such, I don't think the Rockets can make a big change without dipping into future assets. I don't have much faith that the Rockets can actually get a young player that fits the team now and long term, that can easily be acquired. Mostly, I don't want to spend future resources to get vets off the team when it will probably be better to take lumps next year and retool/rebuild at either the trade deadline or following the offseason. If the Rockets can make big changes without hurting draft capital much that actually improves the team long term, sure the Rockets should do it. I'm just very skeptical that this will happen over the offseason. On a KD trade, if it happens, the Rockets need to blow it up. If it doesn't, run it back unless a really good deal is available. Mostly, I see the running it back as one last look at Amen and Sengun pairing before deciding if those two can work together better and to a lesser extent of Reed's role with the team.
Yeah. Turner is not a long time answer. If the Bucks had a better pick (say 5 or so) I might give up Sengun in the trade. I really think giving Sengun should garner a top 5 pick and a good young player or it’s not worth doing. If the Rockets dump KD, I think Sengun comes back with a vengeance next year. He’ll still have his warts, but he will be an even better trade piece if he still doesn’t fit.
Myles Turner is only 30, but he may already be declining. His points, Rebounds and blocks were all down last season. He’s still shooting at a high level though. The contract isn’t horrible. If I’m trading Sengun I need some blue chip draft picks back. If the Bucks are rebuilding, I don’t see how that’s in their interest.
I just don’t think we need anymore data on Amen and Sengun. We should be able to make decisions on fit at this point. But since neither is a franchise player, I’m still of the opinion that adding talent is more important than fit at this point. So I’m not really in a hurry to blow up the young core as long as we are aggressively taking swings at high end young talent. If we can do that without trading guys like Sengun then fine. KD should be the first priority to convert into one of those swings. This win-now approach is misguided. Regardless of what one feels about KD, he wasn’t good for the young core last season. No one wants to go through that again. 33yr old Fred voming off ACL surgery doesn’t magically fix all of the on and off-court problems we had last season. We’ve got to move KD for high-end young talent. If we need vet mentorship we’ve got Fred and Steveo. We’ve got to build this thing the right way.
Then, be pro-tear it down. KD is not likely going to get the Rockets' high-end young talent that helps any time soon. The win-now approach is likely going to fail. I just don't see trading KD as enough if one wants to abandon trying to win soon completely. Mostly, I don't see the vets having much trade value if any other than KD so I just don't see the point in trading KD unless one is willing to bust up team.
Run it back is polling at 36% so it's not just you. I don't think we can contend next season no matter what, but I voted run it back because the value of our players is in the toilet at the moment. KD, FVV, and Adams are all injured so getting a decent return this offseason for those vets would be difficult. If there is a great trade available for KD right now, take it and blow up the team. I doubt there is though and think the value of our guys can only improve by waiting to blow it up at the trade deadline. Also, the value of our picks from Brooklyn and Phoenix will be more clear if we wait until then. At the moment there is still the uncertainty of lottery reform. I doubt our young guys regress much and might actually improve, so I only see upside in waiting until February.
Building around Smith/Thompson/Reed and even Sengun at this point does not put us anywhere near the talent level levels of OKC or San Antonio but we just have to accept that. I think where I disagree with a lot of you guys is that I feel like you could build a team around Thompson. He isn’t Wemby but I do think he can be as impactful as Cunningham. Albeit they are different players. I am fine with running it back as long as Kevin makes it right with the rest of the team and we altered the offense. Obviously, I am super concerned that the coach and the GM are going to get in the way. I do think that folks are undervaluing the impact that Fred and big Steve had on our team. I don’t think that they put us over the top, but I don’t think we’re super far away from being competitive. Sengun/Adams Smith Durant/Eason FVV Amen/Reed If FVV were to be benched and we were able to bring in a player of relatively high-quality, I think we could see how next year goes. Again, this is all predicated on us learning from our mistakes.
To be clear, I’m definitely willing to bust the team up…in exchange for young high-end talent. I just think KD needs to be traded regardless.
If we all generally agree that we don’t have the young talent to compete and that we aren’t contending next yr, even with the vets, can we all agree that we need to take a swing at a potential high end talent in this draft? I’m thinking we can all get behind doing what it takes to do that.
It seems like it regarding running it back. I completely agree on the guys not getting much return back. I just am just not ready to break up the young core, but don't want to invest more into the team unless the team shows it is ready. I will laugh hard if the Rockets trade KD. The anti-KD crowd was so against that trade, and it would be funny if Stone basically undoes it. Granted, I don't think the Rockets gave up much for him and likely won't get much for him. I don't see trading KD to be that big of a move other than what it says about the young guys. To some, it is an absolutely vital move. I'm fine with losing as part of rebuild. I'm not fine with losing, but not actively tryng to rebuild.
If you can get, say, a mid-first rounder for KD, it's still better than nothing. Alternatively, there may be some lateral-ish moves that make us somewhat younger, balance out the roster better, and give the young guys a better chance to learn how to succeed without costing much in the way of W/L record. I am 100% on the trade KD train, I don't think it is good for the franchise to keep him around until he inevitably has a major injury and retires. If we can kind of balance the books on the #10 we gave up I think the end result of trading for KD is fine, but if we hold onto him it will end up having been a negative move. I agree we're not likely to get much for the other veterans, except opening up opportunities for 2nd round picks or whatever to actually get playing time... which may be worth doing anyway, because you never know. Probably don't trade all of them, but maybe one or two. I'd especially like to get off of Adams/Clint and at least find some 2nd round draft prospect who has stretch 5 potential. FVV, maybe, but only if a younger guard is coming back.
I want to keep Adams. And honestly, I would lean toward trying to run it back unless the trade value on Durant is a top 10 pick or a good young player. We are definitely at a fork in the road. The Fertita’s are not the best owners in the world, but I have to think that they are generally aware of the same issues that we are. if the situation with Durant is not repairable I would expect them to move him out, but otherwise I think we will try to open a one or two year window for ourselves.
Star players still can force their way to their preferred team under contract. So "locking up" your star by signing a long term extension does not guarantee keeping them. And the Lakers are one of the preferred destinations by many stars.
That's another point. If we blow up the team this summer we cannot effectively tank next year because we have the swap with Brooklyn. We can still tank as we'd only do the swap if it's to our benefit, but as they project to still be a lotto team our benefit may be limited to a few spots if at all. Say they get the #3 and we get the #6. Great, we blew up our team to move up three spots. Also next year's draft is projected to be quite weak. Depending on lotto reform, rebuilding through tanking may not even be a viable strategy going forward. Currently, having the worst record in the league guarantees a top 5 pick. The proposed reform could see the worst teams dropping down as far as the 12th pick. We're going to see middle of the road teams get the #1 pick much more often and it will change the NBA landscape.
My concern with the Fertittas is that they might not have the deep knowledge of basketball to judge whether the FO is doing a good job. They might just judge it by their normal business sense rather than basketball sense. They have to trust the GM to tell them what is good for the team in basketball terms. I am not sure how well-versed Patrick is after these years being involved in the FO decision making.
I’m gonna assume Patrick is smart enough to know things aren’t great. But I wonder how much of the current situation is due to his involvement. If he feels responsible it’s a different calculation than if he feels his GM is responsible. Just something I’ve thought about.
I think keeping Adams and Fred makes a ton of sense. Neither has any real trade value coming off injury and both fill critical needs we lack on this roster. They are both good locker room guys and good mentors. So I’m on board just keeping those guys. To me that doesn’t mean “running it back”. KD was disruptive to this team. But he also exposed how bad we are without him. We are maybe a play-in team without KD. Let’s just embrace that. There’s nothing wrong with taking a step back if we are on a positive trajectory. KD has legit value. He’s absolutely worth a later lotto pick to some team. Let’s start there. That’s our ticket into this draft. We can add other assets or prospects that we are ready to move on from in service of getting a high end talent out of this draft. The goal should be to reset around young talent and win a play in game next season. That’s the team we are. We are not a contending team. Trying to mask that with aging plsyers is not helping us. KD will lose value if we hold him beyond this offseason.
