Amen Thompson is the Rockets' REAL franchise player

Bro is just looking for attention. Every time I expose blocked posts and see the unhinged **** it reminds me of this:

 

Meh. It’s a public board. I call it like I see it.

 

ESPN just posted its ranking of the 50 most impactful players in the playoff. Amen comes in at 35, right in front of Ausar but behind Rudy Gobert and (*checks notes*) Neemias Queta. FYI, Sengun comes in at 24 with KD at 20.

Of course any such rankings are subjective. But even still, the idea that our franchise player is a third option on a middling playoff team is troubling. Treating Amen as untouchable and trying to build everything around him is a huge mistake.

 

Putting any kind of relevance to what ESPN says just shows how desperate you are to sh*t on Amen.

 

Hmmm...

On one hand I have an ESPN story by Zach Kram, "a national NBA writer for ESPN.com, where he covers the league through an analytical lens, using advanced metrics and statistical trends to evaluate player performance and examine broader shifts across the NBA. He joined ESPN in February 2025. Prior to ESPN, Kram spent nearly nine years at The Ringer."

But on the other hand I have 14,000 posts on ClutchFans from "Hemingway".

Maybe one of them is biased. But who can say?

 

so based on what "ESPN" told you, do you think the Rockets should build around KD or Sengun?

 

Yes, you should trust Hemingway who watches every minute of every Rocket game for decades. You failed to mention that it was based on what they estimated was the quantity and quality of the players. Seth was ranked 50, so I guess that makes Seth unworthy of the max. Tyrese Maxey was 45th. It is a ridiculous bunch of clip bait crap, as are most ESPN lists. They also have Stephen Castle ranked ahead of Kevin Durant and Alpi. It’s really not surprising that Amen would be listed as less impactful than Kevin Durant and Alpi, given Ime’s offensive strategy. I seriously doubt any of his so-called analytical lens and advanced metrics had much to do with any of this. It is ridiculous to rate Amen’s worthiness as our potential franchise player (this is a projection about a 22 year old player), based on something so ridiculous.

 

I base my opinions on:
What I read at ESPN, The Ringer, The Athletic, and the Chronicle;
Listening to the Windhorst, Duncan, Hollinger, Simmons, Vecenie, Mannix, O'Connor, Lowe, and of course Clutch pods;
Watching about 90% of Rockets games each year;
Watching somewhere between 30 and 50 other NBA games each year; and
Having watched the NBA for over 40 years.

All of that tells me that if I had to pick between Amen, KD, and Sengun to start a team, then I would pick Sengun because he's much younger than KD and he's only 6 months older than Amen, but he's already much more accomplished than Amen, has a higher PER than Amen, has a skill set that's more difficult to replicate than Amen's, and is locked in long-term on a great contract, which Amen is not.

Also, Amen's best skill, his defense, is highly overrated in terms of effectiveness because NBA teams know how to switch him off their best players, whereas it's much more difficult to combat Sengun's offense. And if you flip the argument around, of course Sengun is not a great defender, but his defense is much less detrimental than Amen's lack of shooting as a wing. Modern NBA offenses rely on wings who can hit 3s at volume, but with Amen soaking up our minutes and shots, we are constantly losing the math battle even if he's shooting a high percentage on his 2s. In other words, he's awful at the NBA's most important, most valuable shot, and as a wing his minutes are blocking better shooters that we could ordinarily seek for that position - a double whammy. Even worse, his lack of range shooting at a position that demands it clogs the offense for others like Sengun - a triple whammy.

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, if I needed someone to take a shot to win a game, it would be Sengun over Amen - Amen ain't that guy and never will be.

The foregoing notwithstanding, yours is a false choice. No one is asking us to pick between Amen, KD, and Sengun. I am merely arguing that Amen does not deserve the untouchable status that the Rockets and certain fanboys have bestowed upon him. All 3 players should be available for potential moves to improve this team.

 

I wouldn't use that ranking to determine that Amen is our third option because the list is supposed to rank overall impact, not just on offense. Ausar is the 5th option for Detroit on offense. But his defense ranks him at about the same level of Amen.

That said, I think Amen is ranked too low. I'd say his impact is close to where Sengun is.

 

You didn't understand the list. The play-in players are ranked lower because there's less chance that they can impact the playoffs on the whole.

Just curious - you keep talking about Amen in terms of potential, but he's only 6 months younger than Sengun. What is it exactly that convinces you that Amen will eventually surpass Sengun in terms of value? Or do you believe that he already has? That ESPN, The Ringer, The Athletic, and the NBA coaches who voted Sengun an all-star (twice) all know less than you?

 

I think you are underrating Amen's impact drastically.

 

That’s a weird list. I mean, Curry is last.

Curry is last bc this isn’t a talent list. They are defining “impact” to include likely quantity of games, ie who’s likely to advance.

“we're judging "impact" as a measure of both quality and quantity of play between now and June.​

That last line is worth repeating: We're judging based on projected quality and quantity of play. This is not a pure talent ranking.”​

 

You're welcome to your opinion, but the fact is that Sengun is second on the team in scoring and is our leader in rebounds, assists, and blocks - very few players in the NBA have similar production for their team.

Just a little factoid - since he was drafted, the Rockets record WITHOUT Amen playing is 22-13, and in that same span their record WITHOUT Sengun is 16-16.

 

Correct. But it's useful to note that many people here consider Amen to be our franchise player, but this ranking has his potential playoff impact being much less than KD and Sengun. It's interesting to see informed takes from people outside the bubble here.

 

Sengun's two more years of NBA experience and his track record of being pretty similar the past three seasons (I do think he has improved somewhat, but not a huge amount) suggest a stronger possibility he has plateaued as a player. He also has less physical upside; Amen's athleticism truly pops and elevates his ceiling in a way none of Sengun's physical traits really do. Sengun is tall, but not that tall. He's kinda athletic, but not that athletic. He's strong, but--well, actually, that's probably his best trait, but still not elite. Whereas Amen might be the most all-around athletic player in today's league, and if he's not, he's at least right up there.

That said, I would agree right now Sengun is a slightly better player, especially on offense, which gets more highly rewarded by things like all-star nods.

Anyway, we don't know for sure which player will have the better career of the two, and I do think there's a real chance it'll be Sengun. But purely on upside, I'd definitely give the nod to Amen.

 

Amen is a unique player, it’s normal that he won’t fit into some people’s preconceived notions of what a star player should look like.

He already achieved what Ausar is just now going to achieve (all defense) and Ausar is doing it with Duren and Stewart protecting the rim for him. What a luxury.

We’ve moved on to the next phase with Amen and that involves moving him being more on-ball where blocks and help defense are just less available. Has nothing to do with his ability and everything to do with role. All defense awards rim protection more than anything, that’s why they’re going to put 3 C’s in the top 5. We improved Amen’s handle and PG skills far beyond Ausar’s. We’ll never regret it and can always move him back to the same role as Ausar.

Amen is the best wing defender in the NBA. The day you get him a decent rim protector is the day it will reflect statistically. I’ll take him over any 25ppg scorer who’s an average defender.

 

I think they both have the potential to be top 10 players. I just think Amen has the higher ceiling, because he really only has one flaw (which is a big one) to overcome and is a generational athlete with an incredible work ethic. Sengun has physical limitations that will not allow him to be in the conversation as a great defensive player and also not a great shooter outside of the lane. Amen has only been starting for a year and a half. Amen is already a better free throw shooter. By most observers, Sengun has regressed this year both offensively and defensively. Amen has progressed offensively and maybe slightly decreased defensively due mainly to a part-time position change but will still make all defense at least 2nd team. Neither are franchise players at this point, so it is all projection by both of us. My objection was using that bogus ESPN list to make your point. If they both develop an outside shot, I hope they will be Rockets for life. If you have to pick one to trade based on the current roster, it would be Sengun because of his defensive fit with Reed.

 

fwiw: there’s a new metric based upon video analysis that nba.com publishes for “impact.” They call it leverage.

Amen is 26th in the league overall. So, ESPN’s 35th for playoff impact is meaningless to me, for this discussion.

Even Leverage is odd, and probably needs fine-tuning, bc Quickley, Vucevic, and Clingan are ahead of Sengun. They shouldn’t even be ahead of Amen. Tre Jones is ahead of Amen, too.

also note, leverage has metrics for Offense and Defense. Amen is top 25 for Shot Creation, for himself and others.

https://www.nba.com/inside-the-game/player/leverage?dir=D&sort=FULL

 

As much as I like Sengun im curious how this team would look with a true rim protector at center. As of now everyone has to absolutely stonewall their man on the perimeter or it's either a bucket or the rotations are screwed. They don't have the luxury of funneling ball handlers to the center