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The U.S. Brain Drain: How Policies Are Driving Talent Away

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Mar 21, 2025.

  1. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I live in PhD science realm, and we really are losing people. I've been to 3 big good-bye parties within the last year. But it doesn't stop with PhD brain drain.

    I talked with several very talented young people this week -- not yet PhD's but newly minted BS degrees, bright people headed to grad school. They have moved permanently to Europe, and ... they were US citizens. One of them had Venezualan roots, and she told me, "how could I possibly stay in the US now?" Brilliant young computer scientists, but oh well. They gone. At least we are keeping our low talent, violent incels.

    Neighbors on my block in SF. Super talented family with roots from South Asia, happily been our neighbors for 10 years on H1B Visas contributing a TON to the economy and paying a buttload in taxes. They are moving to the UK within a few months b/c of their fear of ICE, even though they are here completely legally. Their daughter -- wonderful kid, our puppy's favorite human neighbor by far -- is so terrified of ICE that she can't sleep at night.

    Congrats, MAGA! Relish the hurt you are doing. Asshats, one and all.
     
    Reeko, gifford1967, Agent94 and 9 others like this.
  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    The US risks losing its edge and its brightest minds as global competition for scientific leadership heats up, with other nations recognizing for decades that research is the pathway to economic and political power, while the US under this administration is moving backward through both anti-science, anti-research officials and policies that push talent away.

    China could be the world’s biggest public funder of science within two years

    China is on the cusp of becoming the world’s biggest public funder of research, according to a forecast by US academics, as stalled growth in government investment in the United States coincides with consistent rises in spending by the Chinese authorities.

    According to the FSIP’s forecast, China’s public spending on research is likely to overtake that of the United States in the next two to three years.

    “I think the earliest likely is 2028, plus [or] minus one year,” says Robert Conn, a specialist in research policy and science philanthropy, who co-leads the FSIP. “It could be next year, could be 2029.”

    The United States has been the global leader in R&D investment since the end of the Second World War. China taking the lead in public research spending would therefore be a watershed moment. It would set the scene for the emergence of a new “hegemon” in science, says Meghan Ostertag, who studies economic policy at the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, a think tank in Washington DC.

    The FSIP projection is, in some ways, conservative. It predicts that US research spending will remain flat, despite efforts by the administration of President Donald Trump to cut research budgets. At the same time, it incorporates a slowdown in Chinese research spending earlier in this decade, explains Christopher Martin, president of the non-profit organization Explorative Science Foundation in Christchurch, New Zealand, who worked on the analysis for the FSIP.

    China’s increased focus on fundamental and applied research is part of a “grander strategy” by the Chinese government to be a world leader economically and politically, says Ostertag. “I think years and years ago they saw that technology and science was the way to do that, and I think the rest of the world is realizing that now.”
     
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  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Well, there it is. Handed to China on a platter.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00618-5
     
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  4. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    I've got a family member finishing their science PhD in Switzerland this year. She's doing everything she can to find a job in Europe instead of the US because of the hostility and uncertainty surrounding research funding. This is anecdotal, of course, but emblematic of our society cutting of its nose to spite its face.
     
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  5. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    10,000+ STEM PhDs are no longer employed by the federal government.

    https://www.science.org/content/art...ost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office
     
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  6. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I've got two working on grad degrees in Europe with little excitement about returning to the US. Not surprisingly, both are young women.
     
  7. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    The worst part is that the public probably won't connect the research cuts with downstream bad consequences. Ozempic was developed by studying gila monster fasting. That's the exact type of thing disingenuous Fox News hosts pick on as examples of "waste"
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Pedo cabal canceled science because woke

    [​IMG]

    @Os Trigonum what is the purpose of this?
     
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  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    America has morphed into a home-self-lobotomy case, or maybe just into a dumb dog. Eat the cat turd right now -- yum! -- and never connect the vomiting or diarrhea that follows.

    It's darkly hilarious, rushing to fulfill Idiocracy.
     
    #129 B-Bob, Mar 27, 2026
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2026
  10. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    A couple of tidbits:

    There are now physician networks and apps focused on the logistics of relocating to Canada.

    The Schedule F Final Rule was just pushed through all the hoops. This reclassifies 50,000 federal workers and allows for "terminations for subversion of presidential directives." Firings are expected to start in mid-April. The recent exits of some well-known climate scientists in NASA is probably related. I suspect the knowledge base of EPA, NSF, NOAA, USGS, etc. will be obliterated too.
     
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  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    @rimrocker -- I thought that Schedule F thing was caught up in court, but is the update that it's cleared that hurdle now? Or that, as usual, the regime doesn't care about the courts and will just do what it wants anyway.
     
    #131 B-Bob, Mar 27, 2026
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2026
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    They got the new rule through the administrative hoops, including ignoring the vast majority of public comment. Now, they can implement and be sued. I'm sure we will see a lower court issue a legit decision while the SC counters with a stay until they consider the issue in 2027.
     
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  13. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    We are out here radicalizing math nerds:

    "Mathematicians are threatening to boycott the field’s largest, most prestigious gathering this summer if it takes place in the U.S., as currently planned.

    Every four years since the turn of the twentieth century, the International Congress of Mathematicians (ICM) has brought together mathematicians from all over the world to share the latest breakthroughs and plot the field’s future. Famous speeches delivered at the congress have gone on to redefine entire subfields of math. The ICM is also where math’s most hallowed prize, the Fields Medal, is awarded. This July, the ICM is slated to take place in Philadelphia—the first time in 40 years that it’s been held in the U.S.

    Now a petition to move the event elsewhere is circulating among mathematicians. It cites the recent American military actions in Venezuela and Iran, the suspension of visas from 75 countries and the continued presence of federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents across major U.S. cities as contrary to the ICM’s goal of fostering “a sense of international unity amongst mathematicians.”

    As of this writing, more than 1,500 mathematicians have signed the petition, which states that they plan to boycott the event if it isn’t moved outside the U.S. The list of signatories includes many of the field’s most prominent names, more than 50 of whom have spoken at previous congresses."
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ians-are-boycotting-their-biggest-conference/

    Looks like they are more than threatening a boycott, as 1,500 have flat out said they are not coming.

    FYI: Of the universities with five or more Fields Medal winners, 11 out of 16 are in the US.
     
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  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    oof
     
  15. The Captain

    The Captain Member

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    @B-Bob tell us of the halcyon days of scholarship before the MAGA, kind sir.
     
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  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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  17. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member

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    April 25, 2026
    Ranking Member Lofgren Reacts to Latest Trump Scheme to Undermine Science
    (Washington, DC) – Science Committee Democratic staff have learned from multiple sources that President Trump has fired the entirety of the National Science Board (NSB). The purpose of the NSB is to advise Congress and the President on the activities of the National Science Foundation (NSF). NSB was established in the National Science Foundation Act of 1950.

    “This is the latest stupid move made by a president who continues to harm science and American innovation,” said Ranking Member Lofgren. “The NSB is apolitical. It advises the president on the future of NSF. It unfortunately is no surprise a president who has attacked NSF from day one would seek to destroy the board that helps guide the Foundation. Will the president fill the NSB with MAGA loyalists who won't stand up to him as he hands over our leadership in science to our adversaries? A real bozo the clown move."
     
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  18. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    He will. Everyone needs to be loyal to him, and only him. It's never about what's best for the nation, for the people. It's not about undermining science. It's about loyalty to him.
     
  19. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member

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    Just like it's really not about making America Great Again. It's about handing out government contracts, favors at home and abroad to those who donate the most, invest in his companies and vanity projects, and pay to play. Whether you call that crony capitalism, corruption, or flat out illegal it all boils down to one true fact. Trump is as self-serving as it gets, and he will never change. The older and crazier and angrier he gets the more destruction and harm he causes to most.
     
  20. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member

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    Trump’s pick for science director: a Silicon Valley investor with no science background

    If confirmed for the director position, O’Neill will be the first head of the NSF that is not a scientist or engineer. Past directors have included physicists, chemists and computer scientists. That has drawn a wave of concern among science advocacy groups and researchers alike.

    https://www.salon.com/2026/05/07/tr...n-valley-investor-with-no-science-background/
     

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